My sister is inactive but sees my mother on a regular basis and the other JWs speak to her too. I am DF and my mother wont have anything to do with me and I am shunned. Not that I am missing out as my mother is a bitter negative elderly woman who thought she would never grow old in this system or have to live without my Dad. :-/ x
Disassociated Lady 2
JoinedPosts by Disassociated Lady 2
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22
You Can Encourage An Inactive Christian!
by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu inhttps://www.jw.org/en/publications/jw-meeting-workbook/april-2017-mwb/meeting-schedule-apr10-16/encourage-inactive-christian/.
this is part of the clam meeting this week.. how contradictory is it?.
first, they instruct people to avoid inactive ones and to shun them and to treat them the same as da'd or df'd ones, .
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Disassociated Lady 2
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Attending the 2017 Memorial
by Disassociated Lady 2 inafter contemplating whether or not to attend the memorial this year i finally went.
this time last year i had been reinstated and within weeks the elders summoned me to the kh to interrogate me about my past and place of residence.
i was angry with them and lost my temper and stood up to them.
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Disassociated Lady 2
Xanthippe 38 minutes ago
Sorry I don't remember your story or the background to this but you say you've been disfellowshipped twice by this cult? Why do you want to go back? Your dad's not there anymore.
Something about it makes me feel closer to him... I often wonder if he is in a "spirit world" and knows the truth of it all how he feels now. :-/ x
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Attending the 2017 Memorial
by Disassociated Lady 2 inafter contemplating whether or not to attend the memorial this year i finally went.
this time last year i had been reinstated and within weeks the elders summoned me to the kh to interrogate me about my past and place of residence.
i was angry with them and lost my temper and stood up to them.
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Disassociated Lady 2
ttdtt an hour ago
Glad you had a good time, but I am pretty sure they were nice to you because they did not know you are DFed.
They do know. the elders at my local one said they were going to contact every KH that I have been to and let them know. :-/ x
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Attending the 2017 Memorial
by Disassociated Lady 2 inafter contemplating whether or not to attend the memorial this year i finally went.
this time last year i had been reinstated and within weeks the elders summoned me to the kh to interrogate me about my past and place of residence.
i was angry with them and lost my temper and stood up to them.
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Disassociated Lady 2
After contemplating whether or not to attend the Memorial this year I finally went. This time last year I had been reinstated and within weeks the Elders summoned me to the KH to interrogate me about my past and place of residence. I was angry with them and lost my temper and stood up to them. I never entered that place again and because I refused to attend their Judicial Committee meeting they disfellowshipped me.
When I attended the Memorial, I went to the KH my parents took me to as a child when we were on vacation. It was a two hour drive but I would rather do that than return to the local one. The elders there remember my family and I received a warm welcome from them and they offered their condolences about my Dad who has been dead nearly 2 years now. One of the brothers there I knew through childhood and teenage years and he talks to me as he doesn't agree with the shunning. None of them looked at me like I was something on the bottom of their shoe which made a welcome change.
I do acknowledge that all JWs are taught the same rules but not all of them go about it in a harsh way.
I am sure the local ones will get to hear about it and realize that I would rather drive 2 hours than be in their presence again. :-) xxx
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JW Society Make Another Huge Sale
by Disassociated Lady 2 inhave you seen this?
$88 million?????
:-o x. https://therealdeal.com/2017/02/14/clipper-to-buy-bk-rental-from-jehovahs-witnesses-for-88m/#.wkquplzkego.twitter.
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Disassociated Lady 2
Have you seen this? $88 Million????? :-O x
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Disassociated Lady 2
The Convention demonstrations came from the JW survey website. Here is the link if you want to read the whole page :-) x http://jwsurvey.org/mind-control/upcoming-2017-jw-assembly-encourages-witness-youths-to-lie-about-homosexuality
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Disassociated Lady 2
A Tale of Two Demonstrations
The full line of 2017 Circuit Assembly talk outlines have been leaked, and are available on the excellent website www.avoidjw.org under the tab “2016 Regional Convention.” There is a treasure trove of talks there to comment upon, but the one we are discussing here is the outline for talk#9 of the first one-day assembly for 2017 entitled Young Ones: Prove that Jehovah Is Your Best Friend. The talk starts off by instructing JW youths to show their love for Jehovah by following Watchtower’s vast multitude of behavioral dictates to the letter, and then moves on to informing them that another way to show love for God is by standing up for “His righteous standards” when they are called into question.
We then see a demonstration of how this is done.
It’s actually two demos, both based around the same situation: A Witness youth named Hannah is explaining Watchtower’s stance on homosexuality to a non-Witness, Emily. The first demo is supposed to be an example of what not to do, the second is the “correct” way of handling the situation.
Hannah’s behavior in the first demo is pretty awful.
Yet her behavior in the second one is even worse.
Version 1: The intolerant Witness
The first demonstration is pretty short.
Emily: I think it’s so cool that Ashley and Jessica have come out as being Lesbian, don’t you?
Hannah: (Grimaces) Actually, I think they’re disgusting.
Emily:Wow, Hannah that sounds so prejudiced. Is that you talking or just your religion?
Hannah: (Abruptly) It’s what the Bible says, Emily. Lesbians ARE disgusting.
Emily: (Sarcastic) Whatever.
So, Hannah is not especially tactful here, but essentially she has described Watchtower doctrine as regards the LBGTQ community accurately. If anyone is in any doubt, just check out the words of Anthony Morris III, a member of Watchtower’s Governing Body and a person Witnesses are required to obey without question.
And to prove that ATM III is not just some crazy weirdo who doesn’t represent Watchtower teaching as a whole, check out Paul Grundy’s extensive article on JWFacts.com, which goes into extensive detail as to how Watchtower have spoken about the issue of LBGTQ rights. In one point, Grundy gives us the following, hard hitting list.
Watchtower describes homosexuality as:
abhorrent, sexually degrading, unnatural, sordid – Watchtower 2012 Mar 15 p.31
an unnatural sexual perversion – Awake! 1997 Dec 8 pp.14-15
sick and perverted – Awake! 1995 Feb 8 p.16
gruesome, violent, and downright sadistic.” Awake! 1995 Feb 22 p.14
disgraceful sexual appetites, obscene – True Peace p.150
worthy of the death penalty – Awake! 1982 Jun 22 p.10
perverted desires – Awake! 1989 Jul 8 p.27
detestable to Jehovah, vile, repulsive – Watchtower 1979 Mar 15 pp.10,11
So no wonder that Hannah, a Witness raised in such an environment, would react with angry, abusive dismissal to news of two other women embracing their true sexual identity.
So no wonder that Hannah, a Witness raised in such an environment, would react with angry, abusive dismissal to news of two other women embracing their true sexual identity.
However, the narrator of the drama cuts in at this point and asks:
Could Hannah have done a better job of expressing God’s standards, doing so in a way that made them clearer and more appealing to Emily? Let’s give her another chance.
Clearer? I think Hannah was perfectly clear, given what we know of Watchtower’s teachings on the subject. More appealing? Well…given that Emily appears to believe that a person’s sexuality is not a subject for scorn or hate, it might be difficult to make Watchtower’s message on the subject more appealing without diluting the clarity.
Unless…
Wait.
Hannah isn’t going to lie, is she?
Yes she is.
She is going to lie though her teeth.
Version 2: The intolerant Witness who lies about it
Emily: I think it’s so cool that Ashley and Jessica have come out as being Lesbian, don’t you?
Hannah: (Calmly) Well, I respect Ashley and Jessica but I can’t say I approve of what they’re doing.
Emily:Wow, Hannah that sounds so prejudiced. Is that you talking or just your religion?
Hannah: It’s my view Emily, but it’s based on the Bible. You know, some people think that the Bible says things about how homosexuals should be treated that aren’t actually in there.
Emily: What do you mean?
Hannah: For example, the Bible says that we should respect ALL people, regardless of their sexual preference.
Wait WHAT?
Where?
Where does it say that, Hannah?
Where does the Bible explicitly say that we should respect all peoples, regardless of their sexual preference? Show me the scripture, Hannah. I’ll wait…
…okay you’ve not found one. That’s because it doesn’t exist. And you KNOW it doesn’t exist. However, I CAN show you scriptures in the Bible explicitly stating that homosexuals should be killed. For the sake of fairness, I’ll even use the Witnesses’ own New World Translation of the Bible, as found on their own website, JW.Org.
Leviticus 18:22 “‘You must not lie down with a male in the same way that you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable act.”
Leviticus 20: 13 “‘If a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing.They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them.”
The above two verses form part of the law code for ancient Israel. The law here is very clear: Homosexuals get killed. No if’s. No buts. Gays die.
It doesn’t get much better after Christ turns up either. While Jesus himself never broaches the subject, the Apostle Paul has no hesitation in commenting on the subject:
1st Corinthians 6: 9-10 “Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.”
According to Watchtower’s theology, not inheriting God’s kingdom means that God will exterminate you at the battle of Armageddon. In other words, as far as Hannah understands it, Paul here is saying that gays again deserve to die, although Christians are commanded to leave the killing to God and his heavenly armies. And if you’re in any doubt as to whether Paul’s overall stance on gays had softened since the days of ancient Israel, here he is discussing past events in Jewish history that came before the arrival of Christ, and the “fulfillment and lifting of the Mosaic law”, as Watchtower teaches it.
Romans 1:26 – 27: ” That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error.”
Now, the point of this is not to get into an extended debate as to how these verses should be applied to Judaism and Christianity as practiced today. The point is simply that these verses exist, and for Hannah to deny they exist, whilst claiming existence for a mythical, unseen scripture that teaches respect for all sexual orientations is simply outright, barefaced, calculated deceit.
Yet Hannah is only just warming up with her “tactical truth camouflage.” The demo continues.
Emily: But I thought you were prejudiced against gays and lesbians.
Hannah: Not at all-I reject homosexual conduct, not people.
Another barefaced lie.
As a Jehovah’s Witness, Hannah is absolutely required to reject homosexual people. If one of her Witness friends or family came out as an active homosexual, Hannah would be required to shun them as if they were dead. That’s a pretty big rejection. More to the point, even if she met a homosexual who was not a baptized Jehovah’s Witness, she would be expected to refrain from any close association with them. If she made the non-JW lesbian a social friend, or even someone she spent more than the minimum possible time required with, she would soon find herself in the back room of the Kingdom Hall being lectured by stern faced elders.
Hannah knows this. Hannah is lying.
Emily: I don’t get it
Hannah: Well… (pauses) I also choose not to smoke. In fact, I find the thought of it sickening. But suppose you were a smoker. I wouldn’t be prejudiced against you for your view, just as your wouldn’t be prejudiced against me for my view, right?
That’s a really bad analogy. Firstly, there is the whole issue of smoking being something you do, whereas sexual identity being something you are, a part of your biology that you are born with. A better analogy would be to compare sexuality to skin color.
Emily: I don’t get it
Hannah: Well… (pauses) I also choose not to have brown skin. In fact, I find the thought of brown skin sickening. But suppose you had brown skin. I wouldn’t be prejudiced against you for your view, just as your wouldn’t be prejudiced against me for my view, right?
Notice how the whole analogy comes collapsing down both logically and morally when presented in that manner.
Also, there is the fact that Hannah would indeed be prejudiced against the smoker. As a Jehovah’s Witness Hannah is required to shun any smoking Witnesses as if they were dead. Smoking is just as bad as homosexuality in the Watchtower’s view.
Yet we are not quite finished. Hannah has one more lie in her, and it’s a whopper.
Emily: I guess so
Hannah: It’s the same with out differing views of homosexuality. Everybody has the right to choose. Based on what I’ve learned from the Bible, I’ve made a lifestyle choice to reject homosexuality, and I appreciate those who respect my right to make that choice.
Hannah believes everyone has the right to chose. Except that if a fellow Witnesses choose something different to her, she will punish them with shunning. That’s like saying: “I totally respect your right to choose whether you cross this bridge or not. By the way, if you cross it, I’m going to shoot you in the head. But you totally have the right to cross that bridge.” To say nothing of the fact that Hannah believes all practicing homosexuals deserve to die, and will be killed at Armageddon by the likes of Anthony Morris, acting under orders from Jehovah.
In other words, Hannah does not believe everyone has the right to choose. You choose her way, or you choose to be worm food.
Additionally Hannah appreciates those who respect her choice to reject homosexuality, but she will not extend that same respect in return. If a fellow Witness decides to live in harmony with their same-sex orientation, Hannah will shun them as if they were dead. But she thinks it’s only civil for her own intolerance to be treated with kid gloves and not called out for what it is.
The demo ends with Emily saying:
Emily: I never thought about it that way.
That’s because Hannah has used a mixture of lies and doublespeak to bamboozle you, Emily. In the first demo, when Hannah told you what her religion really teaches, you were furious.
Basically what comes out in this version of the demo is nothing but a cavalcade of bare faced lies designed to mislead the non-Witness into thinking that Watchtower Policy towards the LBGTQ community is far more tolerant and accepting than it actually is.
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Disassociated Lady 2
Above is the invitation for the 2017 Convention. Rather than "Don't Give Up" it appears they are all running away!! :-) x
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What has been your own personal experience of shunning?
by UnshackleTheChains ini am interested in finding out on a small scale the extent of which shunning has impacted on you personally.. my own experience is that when i faded about 12 years ago.
the woman whose house the book study was held at (and who was virtually a neighbour) walked right past me in my own street.
i remember it so well.
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Disassociated Lady 2
I was disfellowshipped at the age of 16 and saw my parents about 3 times (in passing) over 26 years. Got to see a little of my Dad before he died of cancer in 2015. When the funeral was over my mother shunned me again along with my two brothers. xxx
